I did this review back in August, and since then have settled on Michelin Pro 3 Race in front, and Michelin Pro Optimum in back. Being of German heritage, I was expecting Conti to really impress. Instead they were a huge disappointment. The Optimum tires, by contrast, continue to impress me, and it's hard for me to imagine how the rear version could be improved on. It's as close to perfection in back as the Pro 3 Race is in front.
My search for a better rear tire was launched by my skidding through, and ruining, a brand new Pro 3 Race in back - the 2nd in about 1 month's time - so I am pleased to report that the Optimum(rear) is almost impossible to skid, and seems pretty impervious to tire cap wear on the rare occasion when it happens. The tire is just crazy sticky, and will actually reintroduce you to your back brake.
Surprisingly, since the rear tire is optimized for braking and driving wear, as well as bearing the extra weight of riders in upright positions, the tire is very stable and sticky in turns. This is probably due to the 25mm size, which is the only size it comes in. In technical conditions, and especially with sand, stones, small twigs, or leaves going through the many tight turns of the ARPT, the back wheel stays planted so much better I can carry more speed through the turn, so the 25mm size makes me faster. Instead of hopping all over the place, it just sucks up the debris and keeps you locked into your line.
The Gatorskins are so harsh in comparison, that you have to run them below 80psi to match the supple ride of the Pro Optimum(rear) at 110psi. (the pressure limit) The larger, 25mm tire holds more air, and this means it goes flat sitting around the house much slower. Rolling resistance is not as pressure sensitive either. I especially liked this on the one occasion I had a flat, as my little hand pump has a hard time going beyond 80psi. (the reason I will never run Vredestein tires)
My concern with the 25mm width, was wind and rolling resistance. In the rear, at least, I cannot detect any additional wind drag, and the rolling resistance is either the same, or on old, rough chip-seal roads, less. The bigger tire just floats over pebbly surfaces better. I haven't tried the Optimum(front), but suspect it would offer a smoother ride, better grip and more wind drag than the Pro 3 Race. I think Michelin should conduct and publish tests to make this determination. It would help them sell sets instead of just rear Optimum tires.
If I do the Davis Double this year, it will be on an Optimum(front) tire, as the bigger tires just do a better job of sucking up road vibrations, and I'd expect the Optimum to offer a little more puncture resistance, just because there is less surface pressure on any given surface point on larger tires. The Pro Optimum are in Michelin's top of the line Pro series, so they give you the best possible performance. They're the perfect Century tire.
I have only had 1 flat on the Optimum(rear), and that was after goat-heads, thorns, and broken glass all coming at me in a single 3-mile section. I feel very confident the Optimum(rear) are as puncture resistant as Gatorskins, and in every other way, far superior.
I've never given it much thought before, but I think this tire helps reduce rear tire slippage, especially when climbing steep grades. (you have to reset your cyclocomputer for the larger diameter) Even after resetting my cyclocomputer, my rides are still just a bit shorter because of reduced slippage. This is most noticeable when really flying down the bike trail, pushing 300+ watts through turns, or just flat out on straightaways. It's worth about a half a tooth on the rear cassette.
The only downside I've seen to the larger diameter is some pitting on my SRAM Force rear brake because the tire surface is much closer to the brake's bridge area in the middle. I don't blame Michelin for this, as it's a SRAM QA problem. The clear plastic protection film on the brake just wore off under constant sand spray and cleaning with Turtle Wax car shampoo.
I have ~ 1,500 miles on the Optimum(rear) and it has a definite flat spot on the tread cap, but it hasn't impaired the tire's performance in any way. I'm guessing it will go 2,500 miles, and wear in lock-step with the Pro 3 Race up front. That feature alone is worth switching tires for. For me, the two best features, in order, are the phenomenal braking grip, and planted-like-glued stability in turns.
Showing posts with label Michelin pro3 Race. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Michelin pro3 Race. Show all posts
Tuesday, January 10, 2012
Friday, August 26, 2011
Odds & Ends
First, I want to give a big shout-out to my friend Robin Blackburn who will be putting 9 months of training to good use this weekend competing in the IM Kentucky. For all of us who Father Time has robbed of that ability, get some for us too Robin!
Second, I wanted to give an update on my tire experiments after a few hundred miles. I have settled on Michelin again, because the sidewalls are just so much more robust than Conti tires, even the Gatorskin. I am now running my standard, long time favorite Pro3 Race 23mm tires in front, and Michelin Pro Optimum 25mm in the rear after skidding through 2 Pro3 Races in back in 6 weeks after single 10-15 ft skids.
The Pro Optimum don't roll quite as well as the Pro3 Race, but I can't notice any difference in wind drag. I'm not sure the Optimum roll any slower than a Pro3 25mm would either. What I get in return is a tougher tire (I did have a thorn flat, but the thorn forests go on for a thousand yards in places these days, and those dry thorns are hella hard) that is very hard to skid, AND stays hooked up extremely well in turns.
We have a lot of sharp hairpin turns along the SE side of Lake Natomas, and I am starting to trust the Pro Optimum tire now to stay hooked up even over light sand and gravel. The result is less braking and faster overall lap times. The ride is also better over large road cracks and medium stones, and pinch flats less likely. They also don't leak down as fast, having more internal volume than 23mm tires do.
The Gatorskin AKA Ultra Gatorskin tire isn't as bad as my 1st impression, because once the rather extensive pips wore off the crown the tire settled down a lot and stopped hopping all over the trail and looking for reasons to break loose in turns. It might have more puncture resistance than the Pro Optimum too, but the sidewalls are just too fragile to be safe when riding long distances. I don't want to spend 2-3 hours riding home praying some make-shift boot is going to hold. The Optimum's ride is much less harsh, and much more skid resistant.
The Pro3 Optimum tires are a dedicated front and back tire set, which Michelin claims will wear about the same number of miles. I've been so happy with the rear tire, I am tempted to try the front tire too now. At 25mm It might push more wind, a big consideration up front (irrelevant in back), but I am thinking it will likely have a softer ride, and I am on the cusp of being able to ride 100% of the time on the hoods now, after going to carbon bars, and getting the seat dialed in.
-----
I had an epiphany when looking for some detail on carbohydrate, and then water digestion. It's pretty clear that your body can absorb a maxed out carb-water mixture, like Gatorade's 6% solution, faster than it can digest the carbs in this mixture on hot days. This is because both the large intestine, and the small intestine can digest water, but only the small intestine is capable of digesting carbs.
No matter what the source of carbs, when the mix of carbs and water in the small intestine exceeds some threshold level, the mix, carbs and all, is swept into your large intestine where the remainder of the water is absorbed very efficiently. Unfortunately, the undigested carbs can no longer be digested by you, but are instead fermented by bacteria in your large intestine (colon). The required intestinal micro-structure, nor amylase to break down carbs, are anywhere to be found in your colon. The bacteria's fermentation creates the gas and bloating we all know and hate.
Even with your entire GI track working at max capacity, your ability to sweat still exceeds your digestion rate. If this disparity persists, your body will take water from inter-cellular, intra-cellular, and finally, blood, to make up the difference.
As your body pulls water out of your blood, reducing blood volume, it puts a tremendous strain on your heart and cardio system to maintain adequate blood pressure. At some point near death, your body will attempt prevent unconsciousness by closing off your capillaries to maintain blood pressure, causing your skin to go dry and your core temps to soar. This condition is known as heat stroke.
To prevent internal organ damage, and even death, you must cool the body in a way that does NOT depend on sweating. Immersion in water, and ingesting cold water is about as good as it gets. Having someone hose you down until your body temp is below 100F is great, pouring water down your back and over your head good, and/or a sock full of ice around your neck and between your legs a potential life saver. Rehydrate as rapidly as possible by ingesting huge quantities of sodium and water. It's impossible for you to absorb water without sodium. Manage accordingly.
Nunn and water, especially distilled water, is an excellent electrolyte protocol. Distilled water, having zero osmotic pressure, will support the maximum rate of sodium and water digestion - the sodium absorption required to maintain an isotonic electrolyte balance as new water is absorbed into the bloodstream.
Therefore, the limitation on athletic performance on hot days is neither muscle endurance, VO2max, forestalling glycogen depletion, nor even electrolyte management, but your ability to digest water fast enough to keep up with requirements for sweating sufficient to keep your core body temps under control while avoiding dehydration.
All of this is again raising the question in my mind as to whether synthetic fibers, which transport, but do not absorb water, are a major contributor to dehydration on hot days. Cotton and/or linen blends may well manage available digested water more effectively.
This speculation is informed by many studies that show that while men sweat more than women, women are less susceptible to dehydration and heat stroke on endurance events precisely because they sweat less.
Second, I wanted to give an update on my tire experiments after a few hundred miles. I have settled on Michelin again, because the sidewalls are just so much more robust than Conti tires, even the Gatorskin. I am now running my standard, long time favorite Pro3 Race 23mm tires in front, and Michelin Pro Optimum 25mm in the rear after skidding through 2 Pro3 Races in back in 6 weeks after single 10-15 ft skids.
The Pro Optimum don't roll quite as well as the Pro3 Race, but I can't notice any difference in wind drag. I'm not sure the Optimum roll any slower than a Pro3 25mm would either. What I get in return is a tougher tire (I did have a thorn flat, but the thorn forests go on for a thousand yards in places these days, and those dry thorns are hella hard) that is very hard to skid, AND stays hooked up extremely well in turns.
We have a lot of sharp hairpin turns along the SE side of Lake Natomas, and I am starting to trust the Pro Optimum tire now to stay hooked up even over light sand and gravel. The result is less braking and faster overall lap times. The ride is also better over large road cracks and medium stones, and pinch flats less likely. They also don't leak down as fast, having more internal volume than 23mm tires do.
The Gatorskin AKA Ultra Gatorskin tire isn't as bad as my 1st impression, because once the rather extensive pips wore off the crown the tire settled down a lot and stopped hopping all over the trail and looking for reasons to break loose in turns. It might have more puncture resistance than the Pro Optimum too, but the sidewalls are just too fragile to be safe when riding long distances. I don't want to spend 2-3 hours riding home praying some make-shift boot is going to hold. The Optimum's ride is much less harsh, and much more skid resistant.
The Pro3 Optimum tires are a dedicated front and back tire set, which Michelin claims will wear about the same number of miles. I've been so happy with the rear tire, I am tempted to try the front tire too now. At 25mm It might push more wind, a big consideration up front (irrelevant in back), but I am thinking it will likely have a softer ride, and I am on the cusp of being able to ride 100% of the time on the hoods now, after going to carbon bars, and getting the seat dialed in.
-----
I had an epiphany when looking for some detail on carbohydrate, and then water digestion. It's pretty clear that your body can absorb a maxed out carb-water mixture, like Gatorade's 6% solution, faster than it can digest the carbs in this mixture on hot days. This is because both the large intestine, and the small intestine can digest water, but only the small intestine is capable of digesting carbs.
No matter what the source of carbs, when the mix of carbs and water in the small intestine exceeds some threshold level, the mix, carbs and all, is swept into your large intestine where the remainder of the water is absorbed very efficiently. Unfortunately, the undigested carbs can no longer be digested by you, but are instead fermented by bacteria in your large intestine (colon). The required intestinal micro-structure, nor amylase to break down carbs, are anywhere to be found in your colon. The bacteria's fermentation creates the gas and bloating we all know and hate.
Even with your entire GI track working at max capacity, your ability to sweat still exceeds your digestion rate. If this disparity persists, your body will take water from inter-cellular, intra-cellular, and finally, blood, to make up the difference.
As your body pulls water out of your blood, reducing blood volume, it puts a tremendous strain on your heart and cardio system to maintain adequate blood pressure. At some point near death, your body will attempt prevent unconsciousness by closing off your capillaries to maintain blood pressure, causing your skin to go dry and your core temps to soar. This condition is known as heat stroke.
To prevent internal organ damage, and even death, you must cool the body in a way that does NOT depend on sweating. Immersion in water, and ingesting cold water is about as good as it gets. Having someone hose you down until your body temp is below 100F is great, pouring water down your back and over your head good, and/or a sock full of ice around your neck and between your legs a potential life saver. Rehydrate as rapidly as possible by ingesting huge quantities of sodium and water. It's impossible for you to absorb water without sodium. Manage accordingly.
Nunn and water, especially distilled water, is an excellent electrolyte protocol. Distilled water, having zero osmotic pressure, will support the maximum rate of sodium and water digestion - the sodium absorption required to maintain an isotonic electrolyte balance as new water is absorbed into the bloodstream.
Therefore, the limitation on athletic performance on hot days is neither muscle endurance, VO2max, forestalling glycogen depletion, nor even electrolyte management, but your ability to digest water fast enough to keep up with requirements for sweating sufficient to keep your core body temps under control while avoiding dehydration.
All of this is again raising the question in my mind as to whether synthetic fibers, which transport, but do not absorb water, are a major contributor to dehydration on hot days. Cotton and/or linen blends may well manage available digested water more effectively.
This speculation is informed by many studies that show that while men sweat more than women, women are less susceptible to dehydration and heat stroke on endurance events precisely because they sweat less.
Friday, August 5, 2011
Michelin vs Conti Tires
Tired of twice ruining a Pro3 Race Michelin tire on the back wheel from a short skid avoiding a clueless pedestrian on the ARPT (We need a new rule making it legal to Tazer clueless peds who walk 4-5 abreast across the Sunrise foot bridge. It's a bridge, not your living room!) I decided it was time to stop running the same tire out back as up front. After all, they do completely different jobs.
I started by removing the Pro3 Race from the front and mounting a Conti GP4000s in front, and UltraGatorskin in back. (now renamed just Gatorskin). It seemed like a good place to apply sticky and tough respectively.
I flatted about 2 blocks from home when the GP4000s blew completely off the rim on one side. After a little head-scratching, I think that's because Conti tires, and especially the GP4000s, are kind of greasy when new. A tip about mounting new tires. Rub the sidewalls around on a dusty carpet or use some talc to mop up some of the oil.
A couple of days later, while doing routine maintenance, I happened to be looking at the rim and noticed the sidewall of the GP4000s was punctured, and the tube was coming through in a half-dozen places. I'm also disturbed that the GP4000s tires have no structure. They look like a sausage, or balloon, with no discernible sidewall or crown shape. They also turned out to be pretty bouncy at pressure, and gave a harsher, and less predictable ride than my Pro3 Race had. I returned them to Performance Bike Shop for a refund.
Remounting the Pro3 Race in front, I rode with that in front and the Gatorskins (folding, Kevlar bead, of course) in back. The Gatorskins were incredibly harsh, very twitchy, and when rolling over small twigs, pebbles, or cracks caused by erupting roots under the ARPT asphalt, they hopped all over the place. It really killed my speed coming home on the SE side of Lake Natoma, which has lots of twisting, hilly turns. I just didn't trust that I could lean into a turn and know where I'd come out of it with the back end hopping all over the place.
I've put about 150 miles on the Gatorskins now, and after the center dipples wore off, AND I let the pressure leak down to 80 psi, they are reasonably stable, but obviously, at that pressure they are a bit of a drag on performance. While, perhaps, a little tougher than the GP4000s sidewalls, the Gatorskin sidewalls don't inspire much confidence either. The tread seems pretty stout, but the sidewalls are thin and don't seem to have anything offering sidewall protection comparable to the Pro3 Race - which I've flatted on 6-8 times on crushed rock without issue.
I just got through mounting a new Pro3 Race on the front, and a Michelin Krylion on the back. I also have a new Pro Optimum rear tire. They only come in 25mm, but are a set with a dedicated rear and front tire. I was able to buy the rear separately, but having only one tube that will fit a 25mm, I decided to try the Krylion first.
One of the riders at SBHs claims to get ~ 3,700 miles on the rear and 6,700 up front with the Krylions, so I'm really hoping the Krylion in back and Pro3 Race in front will make an excellent combo, well matched for mileage. (It appears Michelin hasn't decided how to spell Krylion - or Krylon - who knows)
At this early juncture I have only one observation. If you're riding Conti tires, there's a much more compliant, supple ride, with better grip and sidewall protection waiting for you on a Michelin tire.
UPDATE: 8/5/2011
Michelin Krylion tires on the back roll a little slower than the Pro3 Race, and about the same as Gatorskins at full pressure, but without the lumber-wagon ride at full pressure. Feel is like the Gatorskins at around 85psi, but impressively stable, even while still being broken in. They also went on the rim easier than the Pro3 Race, as Michelin continues to tighten up the bead on the Pro3 based on the last 3 sets I've used.
Krylions are a tad bit harsher ride than the Pro3 Race, but not objectionable. Fairly supple, they ballistically ejected a stone to the side of the road when I rolled over it at ~ 25mph, but the back wheel stayed pretty well planted. They are narrower than the Gatorskins, and slice through the wind better. Both the Krylion and Pro3 Race are exactly 23mm by my digital caliper. Both were run at 115psi tonight.
I've also become aware that when riding in aerobars, tires that guarantee you a sure line when you initiate a turn are much more important. You just don't have the margin for error in aerobars that you do riding up the blocks. You also don't want blowouts or pinch-flats in front, and with a lot less weight on the rear tire, it has to be supple or it's going to be moving around all over the place, which is completely unnerving.
I'm going to do one more ride on the Krylions, and then try the Pro Optimum. I just have a hunch they are going to feel a lot like the Pro3 Race tire, but with just a tiny bit more wind drag at high speeds. I read an online review of a guy who put the Optimums on his TT bike and beat his prior 40km time by 3 minutes. Part of that may have been improved training, but he didn't think the Optimums slowed him down at all. We shall see.
I started by removing the Pro3 Race from the front and mounting a Conti GP4000s in front, and UltraGatorskin in back. (now renamed just Gatorskin). It seemed like a good place to apply sticky and tough respectively.
I flatted about 2 blocks from home when the GP4000s blew completely off the rim on one side. After a little head-scratching, I think that's because Conti tires, and especially the GP4000s, are kind of greasy when new. A tip about mounting new tires. Rub the sidewalls around on a dusty carpet or use some talc to mop up some of the oil.
A couple of days later, while doing routine maintenance, I happened to be looking at the rim and noticed the sidewall of the GP4000s was punctured, and the tube was coming through in a half-dozen places. I'm also disturbed that the GP4000s tires have no structure. They look like a sausage, or balloon, with no discernible sidewall or crown shape. They also turned out to be pretty bouncy at pressure, and gave a harsher, and less predictable ride than my Pro3 Race had. I returned them to Performance Bike Shop for a refund.
Remounting the Pro3 Race in front, I rode with that in front and the Gatorskins (folding, Kevlar bead, of course) in back. The Gatorskins were incredibly harsh, very twitchy, and when rolling over small twigs, pebbles, or cracks caused by erupting roots under the ARPT asphalt, they hopped all over the place. It really killed my speed coming home on the SE side of Lake Natoma, which has lots of twisting, hilly turns. I just didn't trust that I could lean into a turn and know where I'd come out of it with the back end hopping all over the place.
I've put about 150 miles on the Gatorskins now, and after the center dipples wore off, AND I let the pressure leak down to 80 psi, they are reasonably stable, but obviously, at that pressure they are a bit of a drag on performance. While, perhaps, a little tougher than the GP4000s sidewalls, the Gatorskin sidewalls don't inspire much confidence either. The tread seems pretty stout, but the sidewalls are thin and don't seem to have anything offering sidewall protection comparable to the Pro3 Race - which I've flatted on 6-8 times on crushed rock without issue.
I just got through mounting a new Pro3 Race on the front, and a Michelin Krylion on the back. I also have a new Pro Optimum rear tire. They only come in 25mm, but are a set with a dedicated rear and front tire. I was able to buy the rear separately, but having only one tube that will fit a 25mm, I decided to try the Krylion first.
One of the riders at SBHs claims to get ~ 3,700 miles on the rear and 6,700 up front with the Krylions, so I'm really hoping the Krylion in back and Pro3 Race in front will make an excellent combo, well matched for mileage. (It appears Michelin hasn't decided how to spell Krylion - or Krylon - who knows)
At this early juncture I have only one observation. If you're riding Conti tires, there's a much more compliant, supple ride, with better grip and sidewall protection waiting for you on a Michelin tire.
UPDATE: 8/5/2011
Michelin Krylion tires on the back roll a little slower than the Pro3 Race, and about the same as Gatorskins at full pressure, but without the lumber-wagon ride at full pressure. Feel is like the Gatorskins at around 85psi, but impressively stable, even while still being broken in. They also went on the rim easier than the Pro3 Race, as Michelin continues to tighten up the bead on the Pro3 based on the last 3 sets I've used.
Krylions are a tad bit harsher ride than the Pro3 Race, but not objectionable. Fairly supple, they ballistically ejected a stone to the side of the road when I rolled over it at ~ 25mph, but the back wheel stayed pretty well planted. They are narrower than the Gatorskins, and slice through the wind better. Both the Krylion and Pro3 Race are exactly 23mm by my digital caliper. Both were run at 115psi tonight.
I've also become aware that when riding in aerobars, tires that guarantee you a sure line when you initiate a turn are much more important. You just don't have the margin for error in aerobars that you do riding up the blocks. You also don't want blowouts or pinch-flats in front, and with a lot less weight on the rear tire, it has to be supple or it's going to be moving around all over the place, which is completely unnerving.
I'm going to do one more ride on the Krylions, and then try the Pro Optimum. I just have a hunch they are going to feel a lot like the Pro3 Race tire, but with just a tiny bit more wind drag at high speeds. I read an online review of a guy who put the Optimums on his TT bike and beat his prior 40km time by 3 minutes. Part of that may have been improved training, but he didn't think the Optimums slowed him down at all. We shall see.
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